Home -> Magazines -> Issues -> Articles in this issue -> View
Jon Lord | |
Jon LordArticle from Electronics & Music Maker, August 1982 |
Established as a top keyboard player in Deep Purple and Whitesnake, our interview analyses the music of his new LP ‘Before I Forget’.
Jon Lord is widely regarded by rock fans as one of the world's leading keyboard players. Founder member of Deep Purple, and currently with Whitesnake, Jon discusses his recently released fourth solo album 'Before I Forget'.
My initial impression of your new album was that it has terrific depth of melody and harmony and this must have come really from your wide background of classical and rock music.
Jon Yes, I think so, I think I have always been the most schizophrenic of English musicians! I don't accept barriers you see, and I get into an awful lot of trouble for that. I started piano lessons at the age of seven then I went into composition and I taught myself orchestration by buying the big books such as Forsyth on Orchestration and Walter Piston and so on. And then I got the chance in 1969 to do that concerto for group and orchestra (a rather cumbersome title) with Deep Purple and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. So I was able to write a full length score for a full sized orchestra and hear it played — which is a dream for every composer and that first moment of hearing is always a stunning moment. It was performed at the Albert Hall.
There were two sides to doing it — you hear something that was in your head actually working live, and you hear others that don't work and you have to change those around. I had a great deal of help from the RPO on that. For example, the head of the cello section told me that the part he had received was impossible to play at the tempo I wanted so he rewrote it for me to make it work. I wrote the full score out and orchestrated it myself — the point I was trying to make was that I had gone quite deep into harmony and chordal progressions over the years. Plus, having been in rock bands for a long time I have also got the simplistic approach it gives you. These two areas of experience must contribute to the way I write as I do.
Have you taken the trouble of analysing, say, your favourite pieces of classical music because you could obviously benefit from this strong interest?
Jon Yes, I often get ideas for rock songs from David Coverdale's compositions in Whitesnake from having heard something by Tchaikovsky, Grieg, or whatever.
Your themes are often so good that I feel I have heard them before.
Jon That could be a worrying thing but I breeze through that because hopefully that means they are good, and I just hope that they are not borrowed. There is, for example, a song called 'Say It's Alright' by Vicki Brown, which is actually a chord sequence that I borrowed from Mr Grieg. It is the way he puts two or three chords together which I liked, so I gently borrowed it.
On the album 'Where Are You' it seems to have a Debussy type ending.
Jon Well, again, he is a composer that I used to play quite a bit when I was a kid. Of course, you can listen to Chick Corea and hear Debussy and Ravel floating around — all those French impressionist ideas have had a lot of influence in modern jazz.
Brubeck was obviously an influence, because I just used to love the way he played a solo. He just used to knock me out. He suffered from a loss of belief in people and the music seemed to come so easy to him, but people often did not respect his fertile imagination. In my early days I had a band with a line up of piano, bass, drums, vibes, alto sax and clarinet so we were able to do some quite weird things. The alto sax player was Jack Shepherd who later turned to acting. For me he was one of the best alto players and he introduced me to Charlie Mingus and that school.
My interest in the jazz idiom led me to find Jimmy Smith. Well, he found me! I heard 'A Walk on the Wild Side' and I really wasn't too sure what the instrument was. I'd played church organ but I'd never heard that lovely percussive effect of the jazz organ and thought, what the hell is that, it's wonderful! Not so long after I joined an R&B band who insisted on having an organist instead of a pianist, (this was in the mid Sixties), so I fell into Hammond playing. But I was still playing church organ at the time.
Haven't you used a Hammond on your new album?
Jon Yes, it's a split Hammond that's been heavily modified. I've had it since 1968, although it's about 25-30 years old and it is one of the original C3 models.
One thing they say about organ playing and organ technique is that unlike the piano, you have to make your own expression. It doesn't matter how hard you hit the keys obviously, so you have to use a swell pedal, but I find that from a Hammond you do get something back. I have developed my own right foot swell technique, but nevertheless I do find I get a bounce back from the Hammond keyboard — almost like a piano although different in its way. And the fingering is different too.
So all the time you were developing your organ and piano techniques side by side?
Jon Yes, they are quite different to keep going together, but piano is absolutely necessary to keep the strength in your fingers, and playing can get very lazy on the organ. I really think any keyboard player can benefit by developing his or her own piano technique and style along with other instruments.
When you play the organ, if you want to play legato you must attack the next note before you leave the previous one behind. You can't use a sustain pedal like you can on a piano, obviously. So the differences in technique I really found interesting. Now I don't think about them — they are built into my technique. But I must admit when I first started playing the organ I tried to play it like a piano and it sounded awful.
So how do you go about actually putting together all these ideas? I believe you have been collecting the material for this album for some time?
Jon Yes, they have existed in a sort of shorthand form for quite a while and that is the way I work. I don't use the tape recorder when I'm writing — I use music paper. I find it less constricting in a way, because if I put an idea down on tape I find I tend to leave it in that form. Whereas, if I get a good chord sequence for something and notate it, then the next time I come to play it I've perhaps forgotten how was originally so I have to read it again and this often gives me further ideas. It's a personal thing. I know a lot of musicians who wouldn't be without a tape recorder, but I try not to do it that way.
When I'm not on the road, I've got a room at home that I put all my gear in and it gets plugged up, and I can mess around in there to my heart's content. I've got the early TEAC 4 track Portastudio and I do a bit of overdubbing with this, but I find I get an awful amount of hiss. That's the only thing I have against it, especially if you continue to overdub and ping-pong tracks.
Once I've got some ideas I tend to hum the themes over quite a long period. Then I'll sit at the piano with an eight bar thing that I've worked out and improvise on it. I just keep going, and this is my hit-and-miss way of composing.
The improvising has come of course from my past jazz playing, and I've always felt that the improvisational aspect of rock music has been understated. Okay, you have structured song, but then especially for live performing, the way it's played is often different because of the improvisational nature of the music. I still like to try and play organ solos that could almost be considered as tunes if I can. That's my approach to solos.
You prefer that to the more free style of 'meandering' jazz?
Jon I do of course meander with the best of them!
There is quite a variety of moods in your album and I believe you get inspiration, as we all do, from various sources — noticeable in pieces like 'Chance on a Feeling', 'Hollywood Rock and Roll' and 'Where are You'.
Jon That's why I call the album 'Before I Forget', because it is a bunch of personalised musical memories. They are all based on little things that happen. 'Hollywood Rock and Roll' is my reasonably friendly comment on the first time I ever came up against American A&R men. You know — you bring them an album on which you've slaved over and loved for months and honed to perfection (you think), and the first thing they say is "Is there a single on it?"! However, to get the effect I wanted I got Tony Ashton to sing. He's not a 'technically qualified' singer, but he is good and his style has a sort of throwaway humour. I purposefully did not fade out the track so that at the end you can hear us really enjoying it and all laughing.
Yes, I liked the vocal glissandos from the girls and then the laughter doodling away — it created the right atmosphere.
Jon The brass sounds on it came from a Moog Opus which I think is a strange instrument — it's not quite sure what it wants to be, whereas I find the Polymoog even though it is now slightly outdated, has some tremendous sounds and I still love the strings on it.
I also got a feeling of the Pointer Sisters in the singing — that sort of style.
Jon That's Vicki Brown and her daughter.
Not only have you changed the dynamics frequently, but the tempo also changes subtly and not abruptly from one mood to another as Rick Wakeman might do, but more rubato fashion.
Jon I have always been very aware of dynamics. This is something that Richie Blackmore and I used to discuss endlessly in the early days of Deep Purple, but unless you saw them live you probably wouldn't realise it. Although we had the reputation of being extremely loud we did use dynamics more than any other heavy metal band at the time. Richie and I also used to indulge in almost modern jazz type exchanges. It was done in a kind of reflective way that commented on the song. Then we would get into a little needle-match element as well. You know, Richie would do something in demi-semiquavers and I would say "Okay mate, anything you can do!" and there was a kind of contest element in it.
The control of tempo changes is really only a question of playing with another musician involved in a face to face situation — what we call the 'horses eyes and a slight nod of the head'!
The one odd piece of the album seems to be 'Bach Onto This' which you've released as a single. What surprised me is that since this piece has been a popular source of interpretation (coming from Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor), I wondered why on earth you had suddenly picked up on this one?
Jon If you take the context of the album as I said earlier, as being memories and things that I have always wanted to get down, I have always wanted to do the Fugue. I have always played a bit of the Toccata on stage and I thought it would be nice to start with the famous opening on synthesiser rather than the organ. I've used the Polymoog organ preset, then routed it through the VCF and changed it round slightly. The piece also uses bass, drums and guitar. Bernie Marsden played the guitar, and I had enormous fun working it out along with the bass player, Neil Murray, and the drummer, Simon Philips.
There is one particular passage on the drums where he is actually following the rhythm of the melody.
Jon Exactly, that was the intention. I also did not set out to do the complete Fugue.
There was one moment when I thought it almost verged on a March of the Mods style, and that is when I began to feel things were not quite as they should be.
Jon You see, we did it all in one go and it was really hard work — nevertheless, it could be a showstopper I think. I have overdubbed synthesisers and certain voices on the record but I can play all the Fugue on the organ. So I'll play it live without backing tracks — just with organ, bass and drums and (laughter) hope for the best that we would all finish together! We cut out the middle section that required lots of manual changes or tone changes. I also ignored Bach's written Cadenza towards the end. The improvisation I do only loosely refers to it. I simply try to impose a modern interpretation to the music at that point.
This piece certainly shows your playing skills and in the past your technique has been highly respected in the polls with your name being ranked highly with Wakeman, Emerson and so on. In many ways it brought back to me the virtuoso skills of the rock era in its earlier days which was refreshing to hear now.
Jon Nice to hear that. It is always something I have wanted to do and that should be a good enough reason. I have certainly used that type of thing on stage before. I also need a showpiece as well; a seven or eight minute 'tour de force', so that at the end everybody goes "phew!"
What is the line-up for the album?
Jon Basically, my keyboards are organ and piano, obviously. The piano is the studio's acoustic Steinway which has a nice bright tone. Sometimes they can be a little muffled. One of my favourite brands is the Yamaha — not the electric — which is a bright pleasant piano to play. At home I've got a Challen, baby grand, which I've had for some years now. I've just bought an Erard from a friend of mine which was made in 1870. The instrument in the publicity pictures is the Challen which I bought from Shirley Bassey and she had it painted to go with her dining room! It's not particularly good but it makes me work my fingers hard. I think that if I were going to splash out I would buy either a Bechstein or a Bosendorf. I get a huge range of expression from these instruments. I have got a Yamaha Electric Grand for stage use and this was a godsend for me. Previously, we had to use hired grand pianos and install Countryman or Helpinstall pickups and that used to take hours, and they were never right in the end.
I've never used a piano with Deep Purple, only organ, but I find it very useful in Whitesnake music. In recent years I have tried to use the keyboards as a kind of 'halo' around the sound rather than being a pinpointed part of the music. So the voice in the centre, the drums behind and the guitar at the side have the keyboards surrounding them. Whitesnake has been very helpful for me to establish that kind of playing.
Isn't your open chord style part of this?
Jon Yes, I call it rhythm keyboards, like rhythm guitar, and I find that if I do less soloing in a concert I have much more to say on the few that I do. In the Deep Purple days it was very easy for me to start playing my own cliches, but now with Whitesnake I come to a solo completely fresh.
I don't quite know where my piano style came from but it must have been in my earlier years before I moved onto the organ and only recently have I come back to the piano as a stage instrument.
Do you use a Hammond with a standard Leslie rotating speaker system?
Jon I've got four Leslie cabinets! We took the amplifiers out of the Leslie's and used Crown DC300's to drive them instead and we've got Gauss bass speakers at the bottom and JBL horns at the top. I don't really know a lot about the technical side — I've a little man who works for me and does it all. They are not synchronised together and that is why we've got this lovely effect of a true choral sound all slightly detuned spacially. When we record we only use two and I have them facing each other with the mics in between. We used to do the same thing with a Fender Rhodes to give it a stereo effect.
I've recently invented a word for this effect — I call it Panolo as opposed to Tremolo, because it is actually a panning of the sound.
Jon What a great idea. I must use that!
One other unusual feature on the C3 is that I built into it an RMI electric piano. It is a straight electric piano with a harpsichord sound as well, and we found that the contacts to make it work were exactly the same as those on the Hammond. So we took the circuitry inside the RMI, put it in a box in the bottom half of the Hammond and linked it up to the contacts on the keyboard. Now the top manual of the Hammond can have electric piano RMI with it if I wish, and this gives me extra bite on some pieces.
Jon I wanted it all to be heard.
Next comes 'Say It's Alright' with the guitar lead played by Mick Ralph from Bad Company. Bass is Neil Murray and Simon Philips is on drums. The vocals are by Vicki Brown singing a sort of Aretha Franklin style. She has a lovely voice and spends most of her time doing backing vocals for others, but I am trying to get her a record deal because she really is a wonderful singer and can convey emotions very well. The music itself is based on a simple progression apart from the middle eight which I took from Grieg.
'Hollywood Rock and Roll' has a slide guitar solo in the middle and the group on the track is really Bad Company minus the singer: Mick Ralphs, Simon Kirk, Boz Burrell, with Tony Ashton singing. The polyphonic brass sound comes from the Opus — I like the synthesiser to suggest traditional instruments. Tony Ashton does the vocals in a sort of spoken/singing style, (the Germans call it sprechgesang). I don't like fade outs and I managed to find a good stopping place in this one.
Often you use an effective coda or repeat end such as in 'Mirror on the Wall'. Then there is 'Burntwood'; this slowly fades in with noise generator and a low synth sound until we hear Vangelis style brass notes!
Jon I did write it before 'Chariots of Fire'! The, place I live in is called Burntwood so it was an attempt to evoke the English countryside. I live on top of a hill so the beginning of it with the white noise is my suggestion of the wind. The horn call is the first four notes of the tune over a pedal point — all done on a Minimoog.
This one in particular could have made a good film score.
Jon Everyone at EMI has said "If only we'd got a film to hang on that one, it could have been a single!" The bass player is Neil Murray again and he is playing the Aria fretless bass.
I wanted the effect of him following the tune. We double-tracked the fretless bass and put it out of sync very slightly. I think he played it, very well because it was so difficult to keep his part in tune as he moved up the fretless neck following the piano melody. I did give him notes to read and he makes it up from that. I don't mind the other musicians interpreting it their own way. If they come up with something better they can use it, but here I wrote the parts out and simply added the chords so that he could improvise.
Here is a technique that younger players might enjoy, using the bass as a copy of the melody line.
Jon Yes, it is a pleasant effect. This track could easily be played live on stage because it is just the piano with the bass and I wanted it to be like a salon piece. It is one I've played from memory although I had written it out months before as a separate piano piece.
What were your other two albums previous to this?
Jon The last one was out in 76 and was called 'Sarabande'. That was with orchestra and some rock musicians literally thrown in the deep end. The album did particularly well on the continent. The other one was 'The Gemini Beat' which was done way back in 72.
How do you feel about the new mixture?
Jon I just wanted to make a solo album without too many trappings — like a 100 piece solo orchestra!
But I do feel you have still kept the orchestral sonorites with the electronics.
Jon I am a fool for the orchestra — I love it! I consider it to be an instrument, not a collection. There is nothing more exciting than an orchestra for me. Those orchestral climaxes are very much part of my music.
Did you do the arranging for the new album?
Jon I prepared a lot of it beforehand in my mind, wrote down the various sections I wanted to appear and then took it along to the studio — I use Britannia Row (used by Pink Floyd). I usually get straight into the recording after a couple of test runs, and we usually do one track a day. I arrange it all up front and try and get the musicians in the studio when I need them. I know other people work at a greater rate of knots than me and would do two or three tracks maybe, and I'm also not too keen on doing bits and pieces at a time. As far as mixing is concerned, I am indebted to Guy Bidmead and Mike Johnson at Britannia Row. As I say, I am not a technical person, so I find processes of mixing a bit of a mystery, but I do understand what effects I want and so on, so that is how I contribute. Of course, I don't use any of my stage effects when recording. I use studio echo which is plate or digital along with digital reverb and I don't go for a lot of synthesiser effects. I am not particularly a fan of pure electronic music and musique concrete — that's not my style. I produced th- album with assistance from Guy Bidmead and we decided tracks etc. as we went along.
Not being able to sing myself is a major drawback for me. I thank God for my talent with my fingers but I wish he had let me sing as well, but I don't like to use vocoders and other electronic tricks to try and make up for that.
Is the single a direct copy of the album track?
Jon No, it is a cut down version. It was EMI's idea and they said it was very much 'Jon Lord'. The idea was not that we wanted a hit single that trailered the album, but was really aimed at getting radio play. It's cut down to under four minutes from the eight minute version on the album, I simply found logical joining points from the original track. On the other side of the single is 'Going Home' and this was played by myself with Bad Company. The theme is on the Minimoog and it has a bit of early Billy Preston stuff for organ.
You have mentioned that you would like to do some concerts and tours. Is there anything in the pipeline?
Jon Yes, but the problem is trying to get Whitesnake back into gear. We are not on the road at the moment due to legal problems our singer has, but we should be back in the late autumn. So I thought a fairly low-key concert hall tour would be a good idea using as many of the album musicians as possible.
Playing and performing is more important than the studio. I love the studio but it can be a sterile atmosphere if you don't balance it with the performing. I love going out in front of an audience, and with the lengthening process that would go on in rehearsals that would make it work live, it could make an interesting concert.
You believe there should be no barriers and take your ideas from whatever source you want?
Jon There are 12 notes from C to C and when you consider all the music that has been written from these 12 notes it is quite stunning that it is possible to make up something new. Music - be it rock, jazz, classical or whatever uses the same notes, so why the barriers? I am not a banner waver but I would like to see a less blinkered attitude towards various styles of music.
If I were to be a crusader that would be my crusade.
Jon Lord (Jon Lord) |
Interview by Mike Beecher
Previous article in this issue:
Next article in this issue:
mu:zines is the result of thousands of hours of effort, and will require many thousands more going forward to reach our goals of getting all this content online.
If you value this resource, you can support this project - it really helps!
New issues that have been donated or scanned for us this month.
All donations and support are gratefully appreciated - thank you.
Do you have any of these magazine issues?
If so, and you can donate, lend or scan them to help complete our archive, please get in touch via the Contribute page - thanks!