Ministry's Psalm 69 album saw the band emerge from the underground into the uncharted waters of commercial success. Xai Sutohbi caught up with Al Jourgensen and Paul Barker when they brought their brutal techno-metal roadshow to London.

Chicago, the city of bluesmen and women, big Al Capone and lead-bellied violence, has over the last few years seen a modern underground music scene establish itself through the Wax Trax label, home to Ministry and the Revolting Cocks, the bastard children of Al Jourgensen and Paul Barker. Together they have released, from their Chicago Trax studio, the most antagonistic records of the last five years. Now Jourgensen has left the unfaithful Wax Trax for good, taking Paul Barker and the children, other miscellaneous Jourgensen projects — Acid Horse; Lead Into Gold; 1000 Homo DJs; Pigface; Lard; Pailhead etc. — with him, all heading for Austin, Texas to set up a new home.

Ministry's 6th album, Psalm 69: How To Succeed and How To Suck Eggs (WEA) has projected the band, lightspeed, into unknown territory: commercial success. For those who are familiar with Ministry, and thought that A Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste put them out on a limb... well, they've gone and torn off the head of America, disembowelled, dissected every fibre, rewired every nerve to register eternal pain. In short, they are out on their own, standing out from the putrid syrup pop-bile induced by MTV sickness.

Technology is a kind of modern god — it can make us or blow us to hell. The threat of the latter has always been lurking in the back of our minds, and the discomfort of it pours through Ministry's recordings.

"Synthesizers are just part of a whole that will convey a message. As far as I'm concerned, this is warfare, and the instruments of warfare are many. Whatever is necessary to convey the feeling you want to get across, use it! Use everything!"
Al Jourgensen

THE ORDER OF PERFECT SONIC MASTERS

Brixton Academy, 14th November 1992, 4.30pm. I sit in on Ministry's sound check. I'm surprised at the volume they require through the monitors alone — enough for an entire pub PA, easily. Drums, guitars, samples, vocals are just in the process of being balanced. Al comes down from the back of the balcony onto the stage. He is the focus of attention, Prince-like. He's also shorter than you'd expect, plays a solid rhythm guitar, a mean harmonica, has a remarkable ear (considering), and is very exacting. So everyone listens — sound engineer Lee Popper in particular.

Dreadlocked, leather clad, biker jacket concealing a gallery of tattoos, shades complementing a goatee beard, Jourgensen has been known to tempt journalists with harder stuff than mere drink. It's no coincidence that William S. Burroughs appeared in their controversial 'Just One Fix' video — this is the man who put together a C&W album entitled Cry In Your Beer — Or Else!, who allegedly sent electro-terrorists Front 242 off stage in a hail of his own piss, dispensed from a beer glass, who christened his next project 'Buck Satan and the 666 Shooters'.

But this is also the man who popped round to his daughter's school to correct her teachers' perception of him as a latter-day Charles Manson. Al Jourgensen clearly creates his own myth. Now that he has quit smack, dying isn't going to be a part of it. And like his royal shortness, Al rarely does interviews.

The soundcheck ran over, as did a photoshoot, leaving us journalists to panic over the 15 minutes allocate to each of us. Great. Which questions do I miss out? I wander outside the press room. Al walks past me, attached to Bushmill's finest malt, muttering something contemptuous.

"Hi, you must be my first interviewer?" enquires Paul Barker, bassist and Al's partner in crime. I hear the panicking, polite PR person bidding to match journalists up to lesser members of the band — no disrespect intended, guys.

Yes, that's right.

"Good, let's find a room."

Paul's wife Getta has just had their first child, Ursula; I offer my congratulations.

"Thanks, three months old. I was just on the phone to them; they're doing fine," he radiates.

Psalm 69 has already gone gold in the US with next to zero promotion. Although the music can be heavy going for some, a thread of humour tucks in all the sonic doom-laden excesses pretty well. A strong sense of optimism prevails.

"Soon I discovered that this rock thing was true. Jerry Lee Lewis was The Devil, and Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet. All of a sudden I found myself in love with the world. So there was only one thing to do, which was ding-a-ding dang my dang-a-long ling long..."
'Jesus Built My Hot Rod'

"We're very optimistic. A lot of people fail to see that in our music. I personally don't think that humanity will destroy itself. Now that I've become a father I've become a lot more conscious of ecological issues. It has a great deal to do with the move to Texas. As for Warner, I figured that the suits would drop us, and it would just be a matter of time. They didn't want to promote the Mind album, so I figured they'd do jack-shit for this one. Now that we've proved we can sell records without their help they're getting behind us. We'd still like to get out of the contract as soon as ****in' possible, man. S'funny, 'cos Ministry sold out at the start of its career. We do everything backwards."

Al has never recovered from a marketing strategy adopted by Arista. A scarecrow-like Al can be seen (dis)gracing the cover of their first album (1983), entitled With Sympathy, a droll Euro-pap affair. And now? Jourgensen said of 69, prior to its release: "If it's a commercial success we're not offending enough people. We would fail as artists."

"I wish Al would stop doing interviews altogether," chuckles Barker. "No, really; the album's success ties in with what we've been talking about. It shows that there are a lot of people out there who are not as stupid as we're told to believe."

Psalm 69 sold 300,000 copies in little over a week, and Ministry found themselves touring America as part of Perry (ex-Jane's Addiction, Porno For Pyros) Farrel's brainchild, the Lolla-polooza tour, which featured the celebrated animal bone mic stand.

"Couldn't get 'em through customs. There's still flesh on them bones," he laughs. "I was really surprised that Ministry was asked to be part of the bill. Al doesn't particularly like touring, but I was really glad to do it after we've been so long in the studio. I wanted to see the world again. It was a challenge we had to take on. Besides, I like reaching out to people. Touring helps sell albums."

Paul and Al took a mammoth 18 months in the studio to complete Psalm 69. Part of that time was spent selecting tracks suitable for their other hungry offspring — a RevCo album is almost complete, along with another from Lard (Jello Biafra's vocals permitting), and a 1000 Homo DJs single. There's also a forthcoming RevCo single entitled 'Cracking Up' waiting to be remixed.

After the tour they want to go back into the studio to begin the next Ministry album, then move to Austin, Texas, start a C&W label, and have their own studio ("It's just going to be a bigass studio") set up by the time you read this. Don't these people know when to stop? When do they find the time?

"God", Paul's pupils disappear, scanning his brain for an answer. "I don't spend enough time at home. Sometimes it can get really crazy, y'know? I guess me and Al are going through a fertile period right now." He understates in a mock-smug fashion. "The next thing we wanna do after the tour is get the new RevCo single out."

It will be interesting to see where Ministry will go from here, with a new album and single due for March '93 release.

"We always have to challenge ourselves. Ministry has definitely reached its peak in terms of the musical format we chose to take. It's become too methodical. It's getting to be a joke!" He checks himself. "Not funny in the, er, Laibach sense. They're a great band — hilarious. Rape & Honey, Mind and 69 has been a trilogy of that sound. Al's been writing some stuff during the tour, plus we've got some stuff that we wanna finish written in the Fairlight. The next Ministry should sound a whole lot different."

W.S. BURROUGHS AND THE CYBERPUNK CONNECTION

The Naked Lunch, unsurpassed for its literal influence on American culture, has been an inspiration for many artists: Laurie Anderson, Lydia Lunch, Karen Finlay, Zappa, Bowie, to name but a few. Writer William Gibson came off that tangent, and his Neuromancer coined the phrase 'cyberpunk', now used to describe industrial/post-industrial electronic dance music.

"I wouldn't say we were part of the cyberpunk thing — that viewpoint is kinda narrow. I would like to think we've got more to do with The Naked Lunch in its broader sense, y'know?

"Burroughs lives a hermit-like existence in Kansas. He pays an agent to inform on what's happening outside his home. It was a compliment to know that he had heard of us when we approached him to be in the video. He was great to work with! Very quiet, sprightly, has a dry, off-beat sense of humour. He's 80, and razor-sharp. As a teenager, I read the novel and found it difficult. Since working with him I've read it again and it's fascinating.

"After the video was shot, Al decided to take a couple of days off and stayed at Burroughs' home. I was really jealous of Al — they had some really good conversation, man. Shit, when I was working on the video I was trying not to look like a fan; there were times when I couldn't get my words out, y'know?"

THE HOUSE THAT AL BUILT

The house of Ministry is open to any musician that comes to play: Cabaret Voltaire formed one half of Acid Horse; the aforementioned Dead Kennedy, Jello Biafra, is involved with Lard; Chris Connely, ex-Finitribe, is the vocalist for RevCo; Pigface features Nine Inch Nail's Trent Reznor on guitar; Murder Inc gets members of Killing Joke in on the act; and 'Jesus Built My Hot Rod' featured Butthole Surfer Gibby Haynes. Howie Beno, in-house samplist and Fairlight programmer, and Michael Balch of Frontline Assembly featured with Al and Paul on Psalm 69.

"Al and Paul are the kind of musicians that come into the studio and lay down tracks in one or two takes. The music is all in Al's head — that's how he is. Paul's tough too. They couldn't do all the other bands otherwise."
Lee Popper, Trax Studio engineer

Ministry's music is very carefully constructed, yet they make it all sound so easy. The Fairlight III is the window in their wall of sound; it is through the Fairlight that they are able to visualise and realise their sonic dreams. The band's approach to technology is disarmingly simple and effective, like all good things.

"Al's been using the Fairlight Series III since '84. Bill [Reiflen, drummer] and I joined Ministry in '86, and we still use it as the main part of the setup today, augmented by Akai S1000s. All the sequencing, mixing and sampling is done through the Fairlight. A lot of the time, once the lyrics are written [mainly by Al], we haveta go in there and move things around 'till it's perfect — it's instantly accessible. We love it."

There are no MIDI sequenced parts as such — everything goes, including synths, goes live into the Fairlight. Ministry's only recourse to MIDI is when reproducing vocal and percussive samples live, when three S1000s are drafted in.

"Bill has most of the hard work. Naturally, he has to keep things tight — essentially he has the role of two drummers. He has to keep switching from acoustic drums to electronic. Thieves' [from Mind] is the most difficult song to play because of that, and also the fact that the tempo goes up dramatically in parts. That can be physically taxing when he's been playing for one-and-a-half hours. Bill is a truly gifted drummer. My brother Roland plays all the vocal samples, and supplies a click track so everybody comes in on cue — especially during 'TVII'."

'TVII' is a stop-start piece: livewire guitar, spasmodic drum beats with screamed vocals suggesting a man having a breakdown in the local supermarket. Roland uses a Roland A30 — "It's nice and light, very easy to use" — while Bill triggers an S1000 with Dynacord and Simmons pads, one of each. "The companies sent them to me, so I use 'em both."

IT'S ONLY ROCK 'N' ROLL

So did Ministry become the most exciting, vital, techno/metal band on earth?

"On this album we have two additional guitarists besides Al," says Paul, referring to their enduring studio/live tour de force of Michael Scaccia and Louis Svitek, both major contributors to 69, and whose former band Mindfunk achieved cult status in the US.

"Y'know, a lot of people think that what we do is easy, but they don't realise how precise and layered our music is. The guitarists must play note for note what each other are playing, I gotta play a bassline that doesn't clash with the drums, which must leave space for the vocals etc. That's why it's so powerful. My favourite track is 'Just One Fix'; the way the guitars kick in, slays me every time, man."