Vangelis Odyssey Papathanassiou (left) and Keith Spencer-Allen talk with Ralph (Shortsurname) Denyer

Vangelis has superb keyboard technique. He frequently walks into the studio, sits down at a keyboard (his Yamaha CS80 appears to be his current favourite) and improvises freely with the instrument patched through the board using the four Tannoy WPD/Lockwood monitors. With the synthesiser providing different simultaneous sounds, his good left/right hand independence is highlighted. However this is not so evident on his albums, possibly because they are experiments with sound and recording more than experiments demonstrating technique. I thought he must have had some formal training. Wrong.

'I never had any training. Let's say I had natural training. I found my own ways to create music rather than picking up someone else's technique. Every day I learn something new, it never stops. Technique for me is a matter of logic. Before I played a regular drum kit I just looked at it until I understood the mechanics of the kit and then taught myself to play.

'When you ask me about major influences I must say that is a question I don't answer. It's difficult because it involves other people and musicians. When I've said things in the past, good about one person and bad about another, it's always got me into trouble. So now I avoid talking about who, why and when. In any case nature is my main influence and can be a major force, if people just open their eyes and look around.'

The most substantial part of Vangelis' solo work to date must be the four albums he recorded with RCA between 1975 and 1978. He feels that he didn't develop technically during that period and points out that his records are purely musical, not personal statements.

'Though Heaven And Hell (first RCA album) has a strong and emotive theme it did not reflect my personal situation. And every time I record an album the same thing applies. Of course I don't record albums designed for the hit parade. I don't try now to make a conscious effort to be commercial as I did in Aphrodite's Child creating music for the hit parade. It was really calculated and we had number ones all the time right across Europe. I know that job and I know I can do it but it's not interesting. You end up going mad, not listening to the music but buying the music papers to see which position in the chart you're at. You end up not minding what's going on as long as you are in the charts.

'I try to be as flexible as possible and not repeat what I have recorded before. Some people have one successful record and say: Okay, let's have three or four more like the first. Then they have what is called a musical identity. I don't have an identity like that. My identity is me, I can't change. My musical identity is made up of many things, so I don't have one style or gimmick. You see these big successful bands that just keep on going and it's not music, it's just a business. Thousands of people follow and buy the group's records in the same way as they buy a particular brand of orange juice or cola, because they know and like the taste.'

The dynamic range Vangelis employs when recording makes considerable demands on recording equipment, the engineer, and the mastering engineer. Evidence of this can be found by looking at any copy of his first RCA album. The title is Heaven And Hell and an anonymous mastering engineer has inscribed the words 'AND IT WAS' on the master so that every copy of the album carries his message! Surprisingly no noise reduction equipment was used on the album.

Vangelis explained, 'Yes, we were in a crazy situation, the studio wasn't anything like it is now. I had the builders in knocking down walls, thousands of wires everywhere and me in the middle of it recording! But I had to do it that way because of the deadline I had to meet to deliver the first album. We had dbx in time for the second album Albedo 0.39 which we recorded a few months later. Keith (Spencer-Allen, engineer), has been with me since that album.

'If I see a musical development in myself, I don't see it reflected in the RCA albums. This is because I can follow one album with another which is simpler. Someone who doesn't know the way I work might think my music is becoming more complex, more acoustic, more electronic or whatever. The truth is that while I was recording Heaven And Hell I recorded and produced lots of things but some of them may not be released for ten years because they may be too strange or progressive for today. So as I am recording virtually all the time the albums are not suitable reference points in my musical development. The only reference with the albums could be how many they sell (laughs).'

I put it to Vangelis that with his RCA contract now at an end and with him spending £100 000 on upgrading his studio, he appeared to be getting geared up for a surge of activity. Would he explain what's going on?

'Can you explain to me? I really don't know, I didn't notice that before. Really... I see it now but only because you've mentioned it.'

So is Vangelis setting up a new recording deal, or is that perhaps a delicate subject to discuss at the moment?

'Not, it's not that I don't want to talk about it, I just don't know, I'm not keen to have deals, I like to be independent wherever possible. I don't claim to be a millionaire or someone who doesn't need record companies. All artists need record companies and vice versa. But I'm not crazy about going round and asking 'Please' and all that, no, not at all. If it happens and a deal makes creative as well as commercial sense, then great. But it is very difficult to get both those things together. You see all the record companies are more or less the same. They have good and bad times and frequently rely on particular people that work for them.'

You can sign with RCA because Mr X runs the record side and discover that he's left there the following week to go to Warner Bros.

'I've been with RCA during what may have been their most difficult years. They changed directors five times. Every time a director changes people don't know what's to follow. But every company has its ups and downs, it is very much a question of timing. Different companies are good for different types of music. You can't go to a company and ask them to do things outside their scope, their speciality.'

Now the RCA deal is over was he willing to discuss the advance he received from them in the beginning?

'Everything is relative, but I never saw the money because it went straight into this studio. I don't spend my money on the usual pop star type of life because that is totally useless and uncreative. So I've really invested all my money in instruments and the studio. Of course I live quite well, no problem.'

Having visited the studio several times now, I had thought it strange not to see the usual entourage of hangers-on that people like Vangelis so frequently attract. Everyone you meet at the studio is either very functional or a close personal friend of the man himself. It transpires that some time ago the studio was adorned with beautiful people enjoying a free ride. After a while the impracticably of the situation was realised. It was suggested to said persons that they did not have to leave but that they should in some way make themselves useful. Faced with that choice the majority opted for a bottle of Ambre Solaire, heading out for California and greener pastures.

Vangelis' passion for collecting musical instruments appears to well up inside him at the oddest of moments. During a shopping trip round Habitat he ended up in the electrical department banging heavy metal lampshades. Other shoppers were looking for unscratched lampshades. Vangelis ended up with a set of shades that gave him a complete scale.

'In the percussion field you have an absolutely infinite choice of instruments, improvised and otherwise. Big shops, little shops — last year in France I found some amazing north African percussion instruments.'

I also spotted a 20in circular saw blade in a large cupboard full of cymbals.

'Yes, it's very good for simulating a storm sound. I used that for the Heaven And Hell concert at the Albert Hall. It sounds the way it looks, menacing and dangerous. You can produce all kinds of sounds with that depending on how you use it.'

Vangelis borrowed a Yamaha CS80 synthesiser and in fact recorded his Spiral album with the instrument before buying one.

'Because you don't want to go out and buy such an expensive instrument before you're sure it's right for you. You go into a music shop and it is a crazy situation. You have people trying out instruments all over the place. With something this important I like to have it in the studio for a week maybe and develop a dialogue with the synthesiser. The Yamaha is a very flexible instrument and the keyboard is very responsive. It's a question of taste as well. I don't say it's the best instrument and that I don't want some others. If I say any more about it I want a free one from Yamaha! (laughs)'

Vangelis usually starts recording a piece with one or more keyboard parts; on Heaven And Hell he started with piano. Does that present any problems when it comes to tracking on rhythm section or percussion parts which most people would record first?

'No, recording my music is not like say disco, it's more free and flexible. On Heaven And Hell and Albedo... I think almost always I've added drums on after. I don't think you can apply sets of laws or rules for creating music. You have to be flexible to be able to deal with problems as they arise in the music. The one thing we do always work for is a good sound from the instruments so that mixing is like having a symphony orchestra and the only thing you have to do is co-ordinate. Sometimes two things might not fit together because of clashing frequencies and you see your meters jumping across although your level is fairly low. You have frequencies that cause indigestion!'

I asked Keith to what degree had they been involved with acoustical consultants at Nemo.

'We haven't brought them in this time as we are basically upgrading only the equipment. We've had them initially. Previous to Vangelis taking this place over it was a commercial film studio. The control room was a giant kitchen combined with a darkroom. In the main studio they used to build large sets of houses for advertising films and catalogues, for fashion houses and the like. So there was a certain amount of sound insulation here already. The problem was time, the urgency with which Vangelis had to deliver his first album to RCA. He was trying to record with workmen all around. When they had a tea break he'd go in and track on a synthesiser. So everything had to be put together pretty quickly. This is the first time we've been able to take stock and make major changes in three years.'

Had there been any standing wave problems with such a large studio and so many reflective surfaces?

'It's been a little bit of a problem but we've corrected as we've gone along. We've had a number of acoustic consultants in at different times. Our major problem has not been internal but with the sound being transmitted to the outside. We're in a residential area and we've had night time problems with people in adjacent buildings. We join on to a small hotel which created certain problems when we mixed through the night to meet deadlines.'

Most of the suggested cures for the problem would have been detrimental to the aesthetic qualities of, in particular, the control room. One suggestion was to brick up the sloping wall in the control room (the one covered with gold discs) and make it vertical. This would probably have done the job but was rejected. Another acoustical consultant assessed that the roof of the building was behaving like a huge wooden resonator on bass frequencies. The answer involved one of the basic rules of sound insulation. Increase the mass, which will decrease the transmitted sound. Large amounts of concrete and stones were carried up to and distributed on the roof. The result? A very tired Keith and team of humpers, but an end to sound leakage problems.

I found that a main consideration in choosing a Lyrec tape machine for the studio refit was its compatibility with Nemo's existing dbx noise reduction. I asked Keith why they had retained dbx which they have used in fact for the past two years.

'In our circumstances it's very useful. Vangelis' music is very often classical in structure and can for instance build from a very quiet piano to a full synthesised orchestra or choir going flat out. So dynamics can pose huge problems for us at times. Also when recording certain synthesisers we are stretching the outputs of the desk and the tape to the maximum. For instance the Yamaha CS80 is a monster with a frightening bass output. During the 18 months or so we've had it, I've had to have the monitors reconed several times because with the Yamaha sliding control the instrument can produce sounds way down below audible levels. We need a noise reduction system to handle a really wide range of frequencies. The old Scully we used to have was a bit on the noisy side to be used without any noise reduction. Also it was impossible to mix when a crescendo died down to a solo instrument... you had 16 tracks of hiss. So at the time we installed it dbx, offering the most available noise reduction, suited us. Also I don't think dbx causes any major changes to the sound of the instruments. Any alteration there is, we believe to be beneficial, I can't really describe it but somehow the system seems to tidy the sound up. David Hawkins at Scenic Sound would probably tell you we must have our machines out of alignment, but I don't think so. Possibly as we work mainly with synthesised as opposed to natural acoustic sound the minus effects associated with noise reduction systems in general don't come in to play so much.'

When Barcus Berry transducers came on the market Vangelis bought the complete range and spent days with Keith trying out the devices on every conceivable instrument in every conceivable position. The experiments were recorded and stored for reference. They also put synthesisers through their paces in the same way. One day in the control room I spotted a pile of boxed reels of 2in tape marked 'Korg Synth' and 'Yamaha CS80' etc. This type of unlimited experimentation has allowed Keith to evolve some interesting approaches to miking and recording. He is, however, quick to point out that the techniques they employ have been conceived to suit Vangelis' music and the acoustical environment at Nemo.

'We developed our own miking techniques in relation to the studio area which is quite large for a private studio. We do experience certain difficulties but these are quite easily overcome. We've had acoustical consultants in and we have also worked by trial and error. I think acoustics is such a semi-mystical science that I don't think anyone would claim to know everything about it, you always get funny little unexplainable things happening. It isn't very exact, it's an art. We go by the maxim that what sounds right is right.

'So again I must refer back to the fact that 70 per cent of all the work I do with Vangelis is recorded using direct injection synthesisers and other electronic instruments. Apart from that the recording that is done in the main room is percussion, classical percussion, symphonic gongs, thunder sheets, tympani, standard drum kit, string sections, small orchestras and choirs. We only record rhythm sections as such occasionally. Most methods are dictated by Vangelis' way of working, he being virtually the sole user of the studio. So for classical percussion we have a studio which is quite live, for drums also. The curtaining you see all around the walls is movable but generally stays put. We prefer to work with the live sound of the room rather than alter it. If we do want to change acoustics we tend to alter a small section only. With a small room it is very easy to alter the acoustics by drawing back a curtain and exposing a brick wall. With a room this size, particularly with so much air space and a high ceiling, it is very difficult to alter the whole area by doing one thing. We employ screens sometimes and also use the stage area which is carpeted and has heavy curtains on three sides as well as soft furnishings. So when we require it we have a far less live area in the main studio. I use that for recording things like the kyoto, which is a very delicate Japanese harp with which finger noise is an integral part of the sound of the instrument.'

Keith has a preference for using a few well-placed microphones on good sounding instruments. Vangelis has a classical percussion set-up consisting of three tuned tympani, one large 3ft 6in symphonic bass drum, symphonic snare drum (tuned higher than standard snare), a variety of gongs, one wind gong (no edges), glockenspiel, two bell trees, a thunder sheet, and two sets of tubular bells set up permanently in the main studio. Keith will on a great many occasions record the whole kit in stereo with just two mics.

'This is purely a personal preference. I've often felt the clarity and lack of phase interference achieved with a basic mic arrangement on say a standard drum kit is the reason for my preference for less mics than some people may use. I've heard of some studios where they think nothing of using 15 mics on a drum kit. To me that doesn't sound right. I'm probably cutting my own throat here but I think engineers are very often driven on by producers who demand to be able to hear every part of the kit. Also these vast arrays of mics are often used in an attempt to compensate and correct a faulty sounding drum kit. Every mic that is added will denigrate sound quality to a degree. That is through phase problems. Also each mic you add will increase the amount of spill. For instance if you have a mic on the bottom of a small tom tom which is mounted on the bass drum, you are going to pick up the bass drum to a point. Therefore you have to EQ the tom tom mic to get rid of the bass drum. By the time you've got the while kit sorted out you end up with an artificial sound, thin and lacking in depth.

'Also when you use a high overhead mic and a close mic you get a problem in that your ears can't place the sound. The confusion sometimes caused by simultaneous use of close and ambient miking can confuse and doesn't sound right to my ears.

'I would use around five mics on a standard drum kit. If the producer twists my arm I'll put more on. I've frequently achieved a good sound with just three mics. Just a crossed stereo pair over the top and one on the bass drum. You must however be flexible, I'm quite happy working towards a particular sound which a drummer may want. As an engineer I should work towards placing as few constraints on the musicians as is possible. I shouldn't even tell them where to be in the studio and if they don't feel comfortable in one area then they should be able to sit wherever they like. I should fit in around the musicians; it may take longer but they'll be happier.'

Keith also works on achieving a good recorded sound at the outset so that mixing is really just a matter of balancing and composing the stereo picture. He and Vangelis avoid being placed in the position where they have to alter or doctor the sound of an instrument during mixing.

'That approach also allows you to concentrate on the stereo picture which involves more consideration than which instruments to place on which side. Depth is very important when it comes to getting a full sound. We can actually go back in the picture. It is possible to create the illusion of some instruments being closer to the listener than others by the careful positioning of mics. I feel that can only be achieved by very careful microphone placement which obviously means the effect must be planned early on in recording. Also I don't think an echo unit is any substitute for room ambience. If you record in stereo you can almost pinpoint how far back a particular sound source is.'

I made the point to Keith that if you sit in a room with your eyes closed and someone drops a coin on the floor you will still have a pretty good idea of where the person is.

'If I had a pair of stereo mics equidistant to your ears a fairly similar thing would happen, although you may have difficulty m knowing if the coin had been dropped behind or in front of you. If I recorded the coin with one mic very close I'd record a great crash as the coin hit the ground, nothing like the sound you'd hear with two ears from some feet away. And if I put echo on that it still won't give the sound spatial relationships. I must once again say that I am far from suggesting everyone should work the way we do. Economics come into it. A producer going to perhaps a new studio with a budget to keep to can't spend the time Vangelis and I do just experimenting with acoustics.'