THE SIXTH FLOOR of a warehouse in the East End, its open double doors overlooking a glassy Thames. The sweltering sticky heat dates us to the arse end of another Great British Summer, and sticks me to my chair at the interview table, where I am attended by a constantly changing combination of Bunnymen. Not only are they being subjected to my penetrating sweat-soaked questioning, but the four are juggling — at the same time — with Just Seventeen, a Dutch radio interview, a telephone interview, and their video director (Anton Corbijn).

The news that has brought me hotfoot from Holborn to Wapping is this: in the wake of the "dead good" new single, 'Bring On The Dancing Horses', WEA are releasing a compilation LP containing Echo & The Bunnymen's collected A-sides. I'm here to talk the band through their old 'faves', and generally get the scam on the Bunnymen/studio/singles interface.

So the obvious first question, addressed to Ian McCulloch, guitarist Will Sergeant, bassist Les Pattinson, a bottle of Muscadet, and two bottles of Grolsch, is why a compilation rather than a new record?

"Cos the record company wanted it," Will replies resignedly. Mac is more supportive. "Because it's our stuff, and it's dead good." But Will is not to be contradicted: "The company were gonna do it anyway, so we decided to go along with it."

Oh. Er... candid, anyway. Yes, well, let's talk about the songs.

'PICTURES ON MY WALL'/'READ IT IN BOOKS'

Dating from March 1979, this single on the Zoo label features the three-men-and-a-drum-machine Bunnymen (the only other track recorded by this trio can be found on the Liverpool compilation 'Street To Street'). It varies drastically from the version on 'Crocodiles'. I ask Will about Echo, the drum machine that gave them their name.

"It was a Minipops Junior."

"It was great," interrupts Mac. "We were the first ones to use a drum machine like a human being..."

"We painted it green — before Scritti Politti!" Will again.

"... because we weren't weird about it, making it go blip blopp, but having a proper rhythm. It's the best beat ever..."

"Rock One," interjects Les.

"... every song we've ever written could have had that beat on it," Mac boasts. Burgeoning with sympathy for Pete de Freitas, I ask Will why they'd bothered with a drummer at all? "We ran out of beats — there were only two on it."

Mac follows up with a story about managers moaning that drum machines would never catch on. "And we were using them first, y'know; we were the innovators," he sighs.

Les confesses that it was only during 'Pictures On My Wall' that he started using two fingers on his bass.

"I used to have a Grant £35 bass, sort of Les Paul shape, and the G-string was missing. I got paranoid when someone noticed I only ever used the A-string, so that's when I got a G, and learnt how to use another finger. Pete Burns had noticed, so I knew I was no good..."

'RESCUE'

Recorded at Eden Studios ("Garden of Eden," quoth Mac) in the autumn of 1979, this was the Bunnymen's first major label release; it came out on Korova, an offshoot of WEA, in April 1980, and was the first recording to feature the group as a four-piece, after drummer Pete de Freitas joined.

"Actually it was the first song we wrote when Pete joined," Mac tells me. "It was recorded as live, the way we do most things. We play through, get the backing track of bass and drums down with everyone playing."

The driving, crunchy guitar sound on 'Rescue', is variously attributed to an acoustic played by Mac, and a hired-in Strat strummed by Will.

"At least I think it was, cos there's a wobbler on it. But it sounded like a banjo anyway."

"That record," muses Mac, "had a lot of space in it — things dropping down. After that, we were always aware of building things up, taking things out, structuring songs."

It was during the recording of 'Rescue' that Les first started experimenting with pulling and slapping techniques, causing producer Ian Broudie to lean across the mixer and yell, "Plenty o' that," at the alarmed bassist. This discovery had led to Les' standard studio set-up of DI and a Trace Elliot 1x15 combo, which he calls the gas fire. "I use it on regulo six, and it helps bring out the boomf."

Further discussions on amps ensue around the table. For rehearsals round at Les and Pete's flat and often on stage they use Fender practice amps, with the exception of Mac, who prefers a Roland Spirit. Will is a confirmed Fender Twin Reverb person, though initially for odd reasons, as Les explains.

"We all got Fender amps because we liked the grilles. We saw the Psychedelic Furs at Eric's, and they all had them — they looked great."

"And they were on the cover of Television's 'Marquee Moon'." Will is also a Tom Verlaine person.

'PUPPET'/'DO IT CLEAN'

While Mac and Will discuss the possible whereabouts of vanished Bunnymen equipment, including Mac's Quad Reverb and Roland Jazz Chorus, and a Fender 2x15 bass combo (how can anyone lose such enormous, expensive objects?), Les tells the story of this double A-side, released in October 1980.

"They were gonna stick 'Villiers Terrace' out, and we said we'd come up with something ten times better. We didn't even have any songs at the time — we just didn't want 'Villiers Terrace' out. Too many things off the same LP."

"Nowadays," Will enjoins, "we don't care. Stick 'em all out."

"It's a part of your stubborn philosophy when you're young, to do that," concludes an older and wiser McCulloch, refusing to be drawn further on the subject of these songs.

'A PROMISE' (July 1981)

Will: "I'd had this riff for ages..."

Mac: "...it sounded great, sort of Joy Division-ish, but better. More of a D chord feel about it, as it was in D. We just used to jam it, play it..."

Will: "...it wasn't structured at all.

Les: "...we did it at Rockfield..."

Mac: "...and I'd written this two-verse poem which wasn't particularly intended for a song, but it fitted the riff. It was one of the ones on 'Heaven Up Here' that we hadn't worked out before we went to record it. Because it's the same riff all the way through, it was just a case of saying, 'Here's eight bars where I don't sing,'..."

Will: "...it did have a chorus, but it sounded like 'Elephant Boy' on the telly..."

Mac: "...Will plays a lead figure that cycles all the way through it..."

Will: "Twelve-string, wasn't it?"

Mac: "...'n' I do the choppy chords..."

Will: "...my Rickenbacker 12-string..."

Mac: "...I was doing this with a D shape — lift off the top string, then suspend it. And I was using my 335. Or a Gretsch Country Gent..."

Will: "...a Tele probably with a Twin..."

Les: "...a Fender bass, a Fender Mustang bass..."

'BACK OF LOVE'

With the memory of Trident Studios, 1982, ringing in his ears, Les is dragged away for grilling by the thugs from Just Seventeen. Drummer Pete replaces him at the table, just in time for me to ask him about the galloping drums in 'Back Of Love'. Mac answers for him:

"That was it, the original riff. Like 'Satisfaction', that intro..."

Will speaks up. "I thought the bass sounded like a Wah song."

"Rubbish!" retorts the singer. "I thought it was like Dead Or Alive till I put the vocals on."

"Don't like it."

"It's the best thing we've ever done, apart from 'Killing Moon'."

It seems that Will was primarily responsible for the writing of 'Back Of Love', having firstly "had a riff", then secondly by providing a vocal line with a keyboard part. This single, their first Top 20 hit, was also the first to feature prominent strings — violin and cello.

"We thought in those days to get a string sound you had to use strings," Mac recalls. "It was my idea, or Les's."

"Another thing we used," adds Will, "were those pipes that are all squiggly, that you whirl around your head — they go 'whoooo'. They're in that quiet bit in the middle."

No strenuous objections are raised when I suggest that 'Back Of Love' was a deliberate attempt at a commercial single. "I don't think so," Mac avers. "'Never Stop' and 'Puppet', and the latest two all were, but I always thought of 'Back Of Love' as more aggressive. I thought it was dead punky," he continues, pronouncing the word 'poonky'.

'THE CUTTER'

After several different versions (one of which turned up on the B-side of the 'Never Stop' 12in), 'The Cutter' was finally released in January 1983, and became the Bunnymen's first Top Ten hit.

It contained large lumps of Oriental-style string work from Indian violinist Shankar, first brought to the band's attention by manager Bill Drummond. Mr McCulloch? "Broudie told me about that riff at the beginning the other day: it seems Shankar was fiddling around for hours with echo, odd things, and not really coming up with anything useful. So Broudie says, 'Sod all that, just play something like "Matthew & Son".' And he did!" (Listen to the record, and you'll see what he means.)

My assumption that the big drum sound was due to the single being recorded in the Townhouse (cf the Phil Collins drum sound of their Stone Room) draws an annoyed response from Pete.

"It sounds bigger because Bill Drummond remixed it on its own, and put loads of... something... on it. Apparently the record company had refused the single, so Bill Drummond — who was still managing us at that time — took the tapes off, changed the drums, and supposedly added French horn."

"It's probably Dave Balfe on the synth," mutters Will. "And that big wobbly guitar chord is by Ian Broudie. My flat'd been burgled, so I'd gone home that day. I still don't know how he did it — I have to make something up when we do it live."

Mac grins. "I wanted him to hire in a scythe, to go swoosh. But he never did."

'NEVER STOP'

Summer 1983, with production credits going to Hugh Jones and the Bunnypersons, with Dave Balfe (swearing he'd not played synth on 'The Cutter') helping out. By this stage of the interview, Mac has been dragged away to talk to a telephone, leaving Pete and Will unguarded, in more ways than one.

I ask Pete about sequences in the song, particularly the intro.

"That's a real cello at the beginning, played very fast, by the same guy who arranged all the songs for 'Ocean Rain'. His name's Adam Peters, and he's in a band called The Flowerpot Men."

There are synths on 'Never Stop', an Emulator I and a Juno 60 set up to trigger in stereo. Will, who writes most of the keyboard parts, hates the Juno 60, and would like the world to know this.

In addition to his normal '67 Ludwig kit, Mr de Freitas used a Synare III for that "khohhh" sound. The Simmons impression is achieved with a harmoniser on the tom toms.

'KILLING MOON'

Remember that plinky dinky slant-eyed beginning? A koto perhaps? No, just Will's Vox 12-string miked up acoustically, and doubled with an amp.

"Yeah, David Lord, who was producing/engineering, manufactured that bit and edited it on, with our approval. It was just something that I'd played — he made it sound like that."

The Vox Teardrop in question is the one Will bought from the batch of 1960s guitars rediscovered in Eko's Italian factory (an Eko for Echo?), a bright red semi-acoustic model, complete with tremolo arm. (For full story/review, peruse One Two for Dec '84.)

"We couldn't decide whether to do the song fast or slow," explains Les on his return to the forum. "We eventually ended up doing it slow. Lots of things going on in that track were done by David Lord playing around with his Emulator — all sorts of stuff like the low bass, which is a cello sound."

"The timpani on that came off the Emulator, which made it easier to play in tune. And in time, as well."

Pete goes on, "The Emulator I has such crappy sampling it actually changes sounds — I think it improves them."

On this track, and most of the others on 'Ocean Rain', Pete plays with brushes. "I didn't originally, but the first drum part didn't work out. The whole song was finished apart from drums and vocals; Mac sang, then I did the drums miked up in a live room with just two mikes, using brushes. Dead good."

'Killing Moon' made it into the shops in 'January '84, and the Top Ten soon after that.

'SILVER'

A product of San Francisco, April 1984, and not the Bunnymen's biggest hit, 'Silver' had them pursuing an acoustic coarse. Les?

"We played acoustically for this Channel Four programme 'Play At Home', so I had to learn double bass. That was great, as I really enjoy doing things Afferent. I love the sound of double bass — I wrote the bass lines for 'Ocean Rain', and several others on it. It's a different approach, as I play to patterns; using a double bass makes you use them differently. I went back to the electric for the album; it changed my way of playing, got me out of a groove."

The acoustic guitars used on 'Silver' turn out to have been a hired-in Martin ("it was as good as we'd heard it was") and a £60 Washburn. These were backed up by a Rickenbacker 12-string, which is responsible for the clarinetty noises on the record.

'SEVEN SEAS' (June 1984)

Will had this riff...

"Before 'Ocean Rain', all we had was a load of chord sequences, though we might have done 'Seven Seas' on a Peel session..."

The single, and the album from which it is taken, have a great sense of openness and space. Apart from the fact that they produced it themselves, Will and Les attribute this to the ageing plate reverbs in the Studio Des Dames in Paris where the initial recording took place.

"We tried to hire them for mixing at Amazon back in Liverpool, but they wouldn't do it."

The keyboards — particularly piano — an either Will or Les; though the former confesses he can't quite remember. "I've got the worst memory in the world, and the only time I ever hear any of our songs is if we do them live, or by accident on the radio. I'm a real Johnny One-Finger on piano, but it's dead easy to do with these new keyboards. In fact, I did more keyboard than guitar on the new one..."

But what about 'Seven Seas', though? "Er... I put this little Eastern guitar thing on it using a Leslie speaker — I love them."

'BRING ON THE DANCING HORSES'

As fine a piece of Bunnystuff as ever there was, 'Dancing Horses' was recorded with Laurie Latham, who is best known for solid pop product on the lines of Paul Young. The result is a glossier record covered in synthesisers, backed by a machine — a Linn supported by Pete's own drum sounds triggered from an AMS. DX7s and a Prophet chug away in the foreground, layered with Will's Rickenbacker 12-string, heavily vibratoed in time with the track. Harps (Will's idea) leap out in stereo, courtesy of the Emulator II, which also provides that wobbly flute part (Will again).

"We demoed the song twice. First time, it was the worst one of six songs. Then we did it again with loads of triggering and a completely different tune. We like all that New Order stuff; we did a bit with 'Never Stop', but I don't think the keyboard side and guitar side marry properly there. So we wanted to do something a bit electronic again."

Also recorded in the same Belgian location was another track originally intended for the singles album — 'Riding The Rollercoaster' — which Les describes as "an American hit, very guitary and rocky". In spite of his protestations (because?) that Springsteen would like this, it seems that neither Pete or Will do very much, though it may yet come out on single.

I ask Will if he is happier with 'Dancing Horses'? "Yeah, it's good. Still prefer the demo, though."

Les continues: "Our recordings are usually better when we've no songs, no idea where we're going, and eight hours to do it in. 'Angel & Devils' (B-side of 'Never Stop') was like that, and 'Bedbugs & Ballyhoo' on the new one (12in version). The spontaneous ones I like best."

Why don't you release the demos?

"There's always something a bit dodgy about them," replies Will. "There's always one bit that's crap that'll get sorted out in the final version. We didn't demo the 'Porcupine' LP, and that took so long to get right, it cost a lot of money."

LEFT ALONE with Will as my tape runs out, I ask him which other Bunnymen singles he'd not been sure of — the ones he hadn't liked. "It's probably easier to tell you which ones I did like."

Which ones, then? "Well, 'Killing Moon'. It sounds a lot classier, but in a trashy way, 'cos of David Lord's production. Erm... I quite like 'Promise', but I did all this dead good 12-string on it and they mixed it really low, and that pissed me off a bit. I quite like the original 'Pictures On My Wall'... that's about it, I think they're all right. Oh yes, and 'Silver' — I like that one a lot even if I didn't think it would be a successful single. That's all."