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MarillionArticle from One Two Testing, September 1985 |
gear-speak from all the band's men
Marillion are gathered together at Townhouse studio in London to mix a new B-side. All of them: Fish (big singing), Ian Mosley (real drums), Mark Kelly (plenty keyboards), Pete Trewavas (low bass), and Steve Rothery (effective guitar). What better opportunity to quiz them on such musicianly topics as bargains, fantasy, technology and cock-ups? Tony Bacon listens, Tom Sheehan looks.
FISH: "There were a few in the clubs — once when I ran off stage with the Shure 58 with an unlocked pin, I ran off and it just popped out, I think it was the Nag's Head, High Wycombe. I jumped out front and the whole wire just sort of stopped, there I was holding a dead mike.
"Mike stands I always have a problem with, being so big. The problem is I'm too tall for the straight mike stand, it's about three inches or so too small, but the boom stands I hate because they're so damned fiddly, they've always got odd joints that are loose. We're trying to get some sort of custom-built stand organised.
"I go through about five or six stands per tour, actually breaking them, because I lose my temper with them."
IAN: "I often say I'm glad I'm a drummer, cos it so rarely happens to you. I have had a drum riser start to drift apart and I've fallen down the middle of it. The other one was when we did a gig at the Marquee once and I had two Chinese cymbals set up one on either side of me. At the beginning of the number I hit them both, and they both came straight down on top of my head. I had to dive for it.
"But of course the standard joke when there's an instrument failure is, oh right, drum solo! Power's gone, off you go. I'm so lucky I'm a drummer."
MARK: "We were doing this big tent in Paris last year, 4500 people. Every time they hit a big flare on the lights the power would sag. So there's one part where there's maybe eight bars of Jupiter 8 and hi-hat, nothing else, and the Jupiter just disappeared. I panicked, then went to the DX instead. At least I've got a lot of back-up.
"Then there was the Theakston's Festival in '82. We were first on, Jethro Tull were headlining, and nothing worked for us on stage. They'd miked-up the wrong amp for the guitar, the bass guitar wasn't plugged in, the organ wasn't working — and there was Ian Anderson at the side of the stage watching this new young band, you know? Shitting ourselves anyway. Plus nothing worked. Pretty embarrassing, really."
PETE: "Reading, a couple of years back. My bass pedals weren't working — I use the Moog Taurus One set. It wasn't actually a failure, but somebody, not our crew, had left them unplugged. I was singing away in 'Fugazi', playing them, and I thought, 'These pedals aren't working.' I looked down and there was this lead hanging out, you know? A bit embarrassing."
STEVE: "It's always quite embarrassing when my computer pedalboard doesn't want to compute. It selects the effects, the order you use them in, the gain, and the amplifier you send them to. If that goes down, you've got nothing. It happened once in America, we did this open-air gig and it was about 95 degrees. It was so hot that the switches on Mark's DX7 were bubbling. So this pedalboard just looks round and says fuck off, I don't want to know. It happened again in Nottingham, I think, on the last British tour, but then it must have just thrown a wobbler. We've got one of those little Boss carrying-case sets of pedals now as a back-up in case anything happens."
FISH: "I've never really bought an instrument at all. The only thing I bought was the TOA radio mike system, and that wasn't a bargain."
IAN: "The best deal I ever got I think was an old Ludwig kit. When I was a kid I used to look in all the Ludwig catalogues, and the centre page was always the Ludwig Super Classic kit, 417 pounds. We used to dream of it!
"I managed to get one for 85 quid. I was working in Drum City when I was about 17 and this guy came in and said he'd got a Ludwig kit for sale — it was up to me to buy it from him. So I said I'd give him 80 quid for it, and he said all right — which I couldn't believe. So straight away I got all me money together, I think I was getting about eight quid a week, and I bought the kit.
"About four weeks later another bloke comes in and asks if we'd received a Ludwig kit, he was from the Special Branch. It'd been stolen. It was brought over from Canada, apparently, but it turns out I didn't have to give it back. So that was certainly a bargain!"
MARK: "When I first started playing in a band I bought a Farfisa organ for 40 quid, the Compact Duo, the one that Richard Wright from Pink Floyd used to play. It was 40 quid because it didn't work. Turned out it was just a transistor in the output had gone so I fixed it for 30p. So that was probably the best bargain I've ever had. I used it up until we signed with EMI, actually. I also got an immaculate Minimoog, in the case, hardly played, for 350 quid which I thought was good. I use it on stage now and it never goes out of tune — the Pro One is worse, in fact."
PETE: "Bargain of the decade I think has got to be the Squier basses and guitars. I bought a Squier Precision and it's fantastic, just over 200 pounds. Before I got the Arias I used to use Rickenbackers, and quite a lot of the time we'd hire in a Precision. It's expensive doing it that way, so I was looking around to buy one. Luckily the Squiers had just come out, and I tried their Precision out against a lot of Fenders, and it really stood up well. I'm looking to buy their Jazz Bass too, cos they're stopping doing them I think. I may even buy one of their guitars too, they're such good value."
STEVE: "My Les Paul was my best bargain, I suppose, I got that in the States for about £260. It's not a vintage one or anything, probably quite a modern one, but it's a really nice example. I tried a few and it's like any guitar, you have to wait till you find a good one.
"Apart from that, the Vintage Squiers are definitely bargains, but I think they're discontinued now. I've got a Vintage Strat and a Vintage Jazz Bass, lovely guitars. They blew a lot of the American Fenders away which were twice sometimes three times the price. For example, I tried a new Fender Telecaster, one of those with active pickups, and it was a bit disappointing to say the least, just the neck/body joins and the general craftsmanship, it wasn't what you'd expect on a guitar that was retailing at about 600 pounds. Then you pick up a Squier Telecaster and everything is there, so well made."
FISH: "A Bosendorfer grand piano — then I could flog it, cos I can't play it. But if there was an instrument I'd want to play it would be the keyboard, because of the songwriting capabilities. Then again I really love saxophones. Maybe one of those?"
IAN: "I'd really like to get hold of a Leedy brass shell snare drum. A very old drum, very hard to get, I don't think they're made any more. But they're beautiful snare drums. There are a few of them about — I think Dave Mattacks may have one. You usually find them in old junk shops going for a fiver if you're extremely lucky!"
MARK: "I could be boring and say a Fairlight. No, I'd actually like to own an Emulator II, for the improved sampling and the fact that you can loop sounds more efficiently without the glitches of the I, the fact that you have more control over the resulting sounds, and the overall quality of sampling."
PETE: "If money was no object I'd probably go for one of every bass ever made! Actually I'd really like a piano — my parents had a piano and I sort of grew up playing pianos and guitars. The piano's such a great grounding for anything. Bass players I tend to find are quite melodic-thinking people, I think you have to be, so piano helps so much in understanding what's happening."
STEVE: "The Synclavier guitar system would be my choice. I was rather disappointed with the new Roland 700 guitar synth, I didn't get on with that too well. It is MIDI, but a lot of the patches are chromatic which seems a bit pointless with a guitar synth — the beauty, I would have thought, is that it lends itself to the expression, vibrato, and string-bending of the guitar. That's the whole point.
"I saw Pat Metheny in Berlin at the Philharmonic using the Synclavier, incredible sounds. He uses a Roland 300 controller for that actually, with a special control unit built on."
FISH: "I started off originally with the SM58 when I was doing clubs and stuff, and I quite quickly found the wire limiting. I hate wire mikes, you can't spin or whatever, and I was terrible for getting it caught round footlights. So we got a Nady radio mike system, but that had problems: mainly loop feedback, and even more the carriage noise, just from handling it. And I'd wear no rings or anything — but still the clicks and so on would come through.
"To get rid of some of the boomy feedback, we'd take a lot of the top-level noises, the upper mids, down a bit, and at the back of the stage, immediately behind the two front wedges, between the drum riser and the keyboard riser, I'd have one monitor with all the mids to highs in it. That was great when I was going down and doing quiet sections, I could step back a little bit and concentrate more on what was happening behind me. On the loud sections you'd get a very good balance anyway.
"A good idea in the soundcheck is to hold a note and walk from one side of the stage to the other and work out where the dead areas are — that way, when you go on stage you know where to work. A couple of times now when I go next to Steve and he plays acoustic for a quiet piece, the monitor guy knows just to switch a wee bit more through."
IAN: "As far as acoustic drums go, it's nice that it seems to be getting back to a very well made drum, more craftsmanship. In the early days I always used to play Gretsch and Ludwig, and they were the traditional craftsmanship drums. But then they all seemed to take a terrible turn for the worse, at the time they brought out the perspex shell kits, everything suddenly went apeshit. Early Seventies, I think. Everything seemed to suffer a bit.
"I've been playing Yamaha about seven years, I'm an endorsee now, but if there are any niggles with the kit as far as fittings or whatever goes, next year they always seem to have sussed it. There's someone there on the case, listening to the drummers' complaints. I can't speak for other kits because I haven't tried them.
"Electronics interest me, but with Marillion the music hasn't actually called for it — I think I used a Simmons once to bolster up a tom fill, it was on 'Punch And Judy'. I've used Simmons in the studio on other sessions, but I don't actually own a kit myself. I nearly got the SDS7 but a couple of drummers told me it had a teething problem where it would jump out of programs, so I waited.
"But I'm still in love with the acoustic drums really, I love to get a great acoustic drum sound. You shouldn't shut any doors. So many guys, it's like tunnel vision. You should be open to anything."
MARK: "Well, the Mirage sampler keyboard is so low in price, I think it will end up where you'll be able to use just one keyboard, the disc-time will be so fast and the on-board memory so large... if you've got the actual control over the sample, not just as in the Emulator I where once you've got it all you can do is modulate it or change the pitch, then you'll be able to do so much more with the sounds.
"And there's FM. With my DX I don't use the original sounds generally — there may be something you don't like, or want to improve or something — so I can modify the sounds. But for somebody to ask me what I'm actually doing with the carriers and all the rest, I'm not so sure. It isn't something like analogue synthesis where you can picture in your mind in a more or less straight line what's going on, from stage to stage."
PETE: "I s'pose active circuitry is seen as pretty essential for bassists now, but I think that often it can be a bit harsh and cold sounding. I'm actually going away from that a bit, passive can be much warmer.
"Steinberger's ideas have been used a lot, but I've not actually used one. I suppose they are easier to handle and don't go out of tune, and the necks aren't supposed to warp. Time will tell — I've already heard of quite a few people that used them and then went back to Precisions.
"All basses have their good points and bad points, but they all tend to have at least one good sound. And that's not really putting them all in one category: if you want one sound you tend to have to go for that bass, say Wal for slappers, that sort of thing."
STEVE: "For my style of playing I would say the locking tremolo has been the best recent development. It gives you the expression you can get from a tremolo system without the godawful tuning problems that you normally get. It brings it to the level where you can quite easily cope with tuning. You may have to retune fractionally between numbers, but that's all.
"When I first changed to the Kahler on my Roland guitar, people told me that I'd lose a bit of sustain. Maybe you do, but I haven't found it a problem. 'Kayleigh' for example, all the picking sounds on that are that guitar, and I think you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference. I prefer the feel of the Kahler to the other locking systems I've tried, you can go quite wild with it and it's still there."
FISH: "I got rid of our Nady radio mic system because it had so many bloody problems. It was getting to the point where we couldn't use it on 60% of the shows. So I got a TOA system, which is brilliant. It's the best radio mike I've ever used. But it's just such a godawful company — I've been waiting six months for five popshields. You just can't get the stuff — no interest. I've always recommended that TOA system, the dual-aerial one in particular. The mike actually looks quite fragile, yet it takes more of a beating than the Nady, and it's much less greedy with batteries. The only thing that bothers me with the TOA is the little wire that pokes out, the rat tail. It always makes me think of the Young Ones sketch with the rat: Ahhhhhh!"
IAN: "It's very easy to blame the drums, sometimes, you do a bad gig — it's obviously the drums' fault. I wish they were easier to play, really, I wish they weren't such hard work. But no, I don't really have any complaints at the moment."
MARK: "The keyboard on the PPG 2.2, it's a pile of rubbish really. It doesn't feel very good, really spongey, the bolts come loose on the bottom of it, cos the whole keybed is spring-loaded and moves so you can use it for various performance things, and certain notes retrigger all the time from that movement. It just feels horrible. You can get an add-on weighted keyboard. But I like the sounds on it.
"And the Jupiter 8 can't stand low voltages, if you go to places like France on tour the first thing to go is the JP8. The program'll go, it'll turn itself off and go into tune-up mode. What you need to overcome that is an isolation transformer."
PETE: "Tuning is the main problem with basses, I think. When you're playing along with keyboards, particularly, they're such precision instruments that everything else that's played with them has to be spot on. There can be little discrepancies, and I've found the worst of these to be on the second and third frets, very much at the nut end of the bass.
"I've found that on every bass I've ever played, it's never been perfectly in tune with itself. You don't always notice it, of course, but it's more likely to be a problem when mixed with keyboards."
STEVE: "It's a fairly standard complaint I think, but it's that one of single-coil pickups humming and buzzing under lights, particularly if you use a distortion pedal. It can sometimes be quite horrendous. When we were recording the album at Hansa in Berlin we had some severe buzz problems, but we managed to get away with it. As long as it's not louder than the signal you're trying to put down... "
FISH: "I preferred the live-in-the-studio set-up for this new LP. A lot of the lyrics weren't finished when we were still in the studio, but I didn't want to get involved in that analytical filter that I tend to get when I sit down and write. You become very conscious of the words and you don't relate it to the music. I was determined to keep a subconscious flow, a Kerouac or Ginsberg style you could say, but still communicate with something that's understandable. So quite often I'd just jam the vocal and come up with things that I wouldn't have got from sitting down to write.
"Instead of using a Shure SM58 in the middle of the studio for a guide, we were using the Beyers and stuff in a properly sealed booth. If there were bits that were suitable, because of the feel and sparkle, you could actually use them. That happened on the Mylo section on side two, for example, which is the pure 'guide' vocal, untouched.
"Sometimes when you're doing the main vocal you become very self-conscious and very aware of the finality of what you're doing. With this method we could go for the emotion. There were times when I'd do a technically perfect vocal, and Chris (Kimsey, producer) would say there's no soul there, whereas I tended not to do that with Nick Talbot."
IAN: "It depends what I'm doing in the studio, but with Marillion I used the same kit on the new album and on stage. It's a Yamaha 9000 Series: toms are 10, 12, 13, 14 rack, 14 floor, 16 and an 18, and a 14 x 7½ wood shell snare. I don't use any damping, apart from in the bass drum and a little on the snare.
"I still do the occasional session, if the phone rings I'll go. bast month I did a session for a band called Propaganda. That was a completely different venture, I took in a really small kit and recorded it with just one mike in a live room — producer was a bloke called Steve Lipson. Sounded great. I'm always up for experimenting."
MARK: "With the new album it worked a bit differently. I just went into the studio and set up as I had for rehearsing, virtually the same as the last tour. So I have a Yamaha CP70, a Jupiter 8 and a Pro One, that's one side, then a Korg CX3, PPG 2.2 and a Minimoog, and then round the other side there's an Emulator I, DX7 and a Juno 106. So I'll use those on this tour, exactly the same sounds as I used for recording.
"I've been thinking of ways to cut down the number of keyboards — there's sampling, but the Emu I I've got is not really good enough, not versatile enough. Maybe the II? I've been looking at the Mirage, there's more facilities to do things with the samples once you've got them, but I don't think its quality is good enough to use it to replace everything else. The other alternative is to get rid of half the keyboards and get more into MIDI, perhaps the Roland Mother Keyboard idea, with say a Super Jupiter, a DX, a Juno and so on working off it, use the patch programs to set up all the various changes.
"But one thing, for example, that put me off the Roland idea was the piano-weighted keyboard, I'd have to go for the plastic keys — I'm self-taught, and learnt to play on an organ rather than on a piano, so I like the feel of a light, fast keyboard.
"I use the Juno MIDI'd to the DX: it was primarily in an attempt to get a good string sound from the DX — the DX's own sounds in that area are very dry and don't have the warmth of something like a Jupiter. So for sounds where I want maybe a brass attack and a string decay that system works very well. I just plugged the MIDIs in and it worked: you can change programs on the two, use the pitchbend and modulation. The only problem I've had is that one note sometimes sticks on the Juno: you'll play a part on the DX and the Juno'll be hanging on this one note. The only way to stop it is to press the note again. Very strange. And it only happens very occasionally so I couldn't demonstrate it easily for someone to fix it."
PETE: "On this album it doesn't vary — usually it does. In the past I've not used any of my stage effects in the studio and gone DI'd and miked straight to the desk, then put outboard gear on from there, reverb and chorus and so on. But on this album, as we were going for a more live feel in the studio, I used all my Boss effects. Most of the first side of the album was played live, in fact. I think that particularly helps the bass player and the drummer to work better together — a lot of the time these days you're just playing along to a recorded drum track, and even if you have played along before, it's a bit cold staring at a couple of speakers waiting for the next change to come up. It's more like an exam that way.
"I use a Peavey Mark III bass head. That has two channels, and you can go into either channel, or mix the two which is what I tend to do. Live I don't like to change my sound too much with amps, I feel that you need a good strong sound that's powerful: I tend to change my sound through a chorus or a flanger or something, or by varying the playing style, fingers, plectrum, slapping and so on.
"I have two Peavey cabinets, 2x15 and a 4x12, and usually we've miked up the 4x12. The throw's a bit different, you get more punch from the 15s, a longer throw from the 12s. There's a DI feed, too.
"I always use an Aria 881000 bass, I'm an endorsee, and I've had it about two years. I've just been given a new one, the RSB, which has slightly more complex electrics. The 1000's got active/passive selection — for live I always use active settings with everything on the bass flat out. But recording I changed around a little, used some passive sounds, and I used a fretless passive Aria on a few bits on the album. I also like to use the old mono Boss chorus on a fretted bass to get a fretless-type sound — high depth and slow rate, I think."
STEVE: "It tends to stay pretty much the same: amplification is a Roland JC120 and a Marshall stack, although I don't use the Marshall much now. I use the Roland computerised pedalboard so I can select which amp I use from the sends on that.
"Then I use a Roland 3000 digital delay. That only has eight delay memories, though, and sometimes that's a bit of a limitation.
"I have a Roland blue-box guitar synthesiser. I use the Strat-type controller most of the time as my main guitar, but it's been quite heavily modified. It's got DiMarzio Vintage Strat pickups, they really did fatten out the sound, and I'm just getting a new neck made for it by Roger Giffin. It has a Kahler tremolo fitted to it as well. So it's only really the body that's left from the Roland!
"The synth section is good for majestic, swelling chords, or a melody line where you need that little bit more thickness or impact, or something different from an ordinary guitar sound. It's the old, redundant 300, but you can still get some rich sounds out of it. Live I usually have oscillator one tuned down an octave and the second at standard pitch, with the Duet switch on all the time.
"The other stage guitar I use is the Yamaha SG3000 — I had some 2000s before. The main improvement with the 3000 is the coil-tap, really good for picking and arpeggios. Other than that I like the colour of the 3000 I've got, a very nice black. I think it's generally just a little more refined. Occasionally I use my Les Paul in the studio for the classic Marshall combination."
Marillion (Marillion) |
One in a Marillion (Marillion) |
One In A M'rillion (Marillion) |
The Producers (Nick Tauber) |
One In A M'rillion (Steve Rothery) |
The Sound That Steve Built (Steve Rothery) |
Interview by Tony Bacon
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